Need changes

[BUCKSHOT]

When are they going to make the rest of the state 3 on one side
or better.then you got these gangs driving does an killing every-
thing that moves.late last year it was hard to see a deer it needs
to stop.i think we have the ratio were we need it just have to let the little guys grow

[Bernie M]

Yes the 3 on one side is a great rule and i have seen nicer deer taken in last 5 years. The big problem is that in PA doe season goes all through buck season and the doe aren't around like they were since they changed it. I hunt in centre county PA for rifle season and the year they changed it a local friend up there used to count shot that he would hear opening day with a clicker counter. Now keep in mind there tons of hunters in that area but it went from 200-300 shots opening day to 1500 shot just on opening day.On any given day while in my stand i would see 15-50 deer a day.Now 15 deer in a day would be a busy day. I talk to guys that hunt all over the state andthey are saying the same thing. the PA game commition has to stop this soon because it gets worst every year. and like i said the bucks have bigger but we have been harvesting %50 less out of 15- 20 guys. The bottom line is a doe makes BUCKS.

[Barrell]

And a button buck may be legal in antlerless but it is next years buck. Clubs should have a fine for members who take a button during antlerless. This isnt my idea but what Ive read in all the best books written on big buck management. They all say the program wont work if guys shoot buttons and those shooters should be fined to force them to verify the sex of the antlerless deer before shooting. Its easy to do. we havent shot a button at our PA camp in 20 years because the peer preasure if anyone was to do it would be unbearable.

[stephenf]

I agree that we have started a trend with the driveing group that they shoot when they see brown since every deer is legal. I am not a big fan as what is happening is the deer are still to crowded in the areas nobody can get to but the hunted areas are seeing alot less deer. the probelem is we have been acustomed to seeing alot of deer on each sit ,as mich as we like to see lots of deer it keeps us focused and it keeps us awake on stand,it is not good for the enviroment and the deer , i see less deer now but the deer are larger now and healthier. it is a good thing to have healthier deer . I think the days of seeing the 30 to 40 deer are long gone . Right or wrong it is what the deer hunting will be for future. I dont agree with the brown its down mentality. we need to be able to get at more areas that they are hold up in. we need to show ourselves as not billy bobs but the neighbor who hunts ,the guy we see at church or at the little league field ,the father or son the neighbors know as a decent person and will allow to hunt in there back yard and feel safe while we do it ,that is why our impression we leave on the people that are on the fence about hunting is so important the t shirts and what not like hapiness is a styeaming gut pile and poor taste phases need to be put away , we dont have to be ashamed of what we do we just have to not shove it in there face , dont have blood dripping out of the bed with the tailgate down so the world can see .out of sight out of mind ! It is every ones responsibilty to improve our image .this will inturn open more areas to hunt and more people who will not vote to ban or smother hunting .

[QuintonZ29]

peer pressure works better than any written law.....three points on one side is a great rule and my wall has gotten full because of it...iI see and kill bigger deer on my property now because of it....it should be state wide...I do hunt with a club during 6 day and in a zone that the 3 point is not in and would love to see it there...Its a shame to see all those spikes getting killed and not a chance for them to grow up..

[Margaritaville]

And a button buck may be legal in antlerless but it is next years buck. Clubs should have a fine for members who take a button during antlerless. This isnt my idea but what Ive read in all the best books written on big buck management. They all say the program wont work if guys shoot buttons and those shooters should be fined to force them to verify the sex of the antlerless deer before shooting. Its easy to do. we havent shot a button at our PA camp in 20 years because the peer preasure if anyone was to do it would be unbearable.

in NJ
A button buck (under 3") should count as an antlered kill. if you are killing a deer that small, shame on you. Our club does not do organized drives on doe days anymore. When we did, we would see how many guys we had commit to a number of kills (typically 10 guys, 2 deer) when we killed the two, we went back to the club house and relaxed.

I think the days of seeing the 30 to 40 deer are long gone . Right or wrong it is what the deer hunting will be for future.
I am seeing ALOT of deer this year, just not many bucks. My camera is gonna go out soon along with ALOT of bait.

As for the in your face mentallity, in NJ your kill was always supposed to be exposed. If you think it is a slaughter now, wait until NJ legalizes crossbows and the guys that don't practice with a bow thinks that a bolt will shoot straight at 50 yards. :huh::huh:

peer pressure works better than any written law.....three points on one side is a great rule and my wall has gotten full because of it...iI see and kill bigger deer on my property now because of it....it should be state wide...I do hunt with a club during 6 day and in a zone that the 3 point is not in and would love to see it there...Its a shame to see all those spikes getting killed and not a chance for them to grow up..


I am not a big fan of the 3 or better rule, but I don't hunt for sport. Killing a nice buck is a good reward, but I would rather have a healthy doe (90+ lbs) than a buck. Someone else can kill it.

[Bait Runner]

The first year or two, we killed some really nice deer on our property. However over the past 5 years are quality of bucks has decreased and so has the numbers. Seems like were shooting the good breeders and letting all the junk do the breeding. I'm all for managing the heard, but could do a lot better job without the 3 point rule. Just my opinion.

[cowboymike008]

i think pushng deer should be banned period

[Margaritaville]

i think pushng deer should be banned period

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[ub1243]

i think pushng deer should be banned period

it should be banned on public lands.
it should be up to the private land owners.

[Capt. Paul]

I'm for the quality rather than quanity, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they made 3 pts. a rule. Don't make sense to shoot a small buck and lower your odds for next year. If you want meat, shoot a doe. Its the hunt that I found is the most rewarding. After the shot, its nothing but work. We use to make drives with Muzzelloaders and so many buttons were shot because of the brown is down bit, that we shot ourselves in the foot I think! I for one gave that up several years ago cause of what I saw, just don't make good sense to me, but to each is own. Oh well, just thought I'd give my opinion.

["String Music"]

When are they going to make the rest of the state 3 on one side
or better.then you got these gangs driving does an killing every-
thing that moves.late last year it was hard to see a deer it needs
to stop.i think we have the ratio were we need it just have to let the little guys grow

Hey Jim...I would say that there are two sides to this argument...Some say that the 3 on one side is actually hurting the deer quality...Shooting only bucks with atleast 3 points on one side allows many deer to get killed that are larger...with this concept the scrub bucks and smaller bucks then are impregnating the does with inferior genes...I dont remember where I read it but it was in a magazine like Deed & Deer hunting or something like that...Just a theory to kick around...what do you guys feel about that? (Not agreeing with what I read...just putting it out for discussion):thup:

[BUCKSHOT]

It not just 3 on one side but we need to cut down on the amount of bucks you are aloud to kill my opinion 1 bow 1 shotgun 1 muzzle loader an you are not going to kill all the big bucks they will get there breeding in they didnt get big from being stupid

[QuintonZ29]

http://www.myfishpix.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_0707.jpghttp://http://www.myfishpix.com/gallery/data/500/medium/100_0707.jpgWith the 3 point rule I can still kill all the does I want and I still take nicer bucks than I used to before the rule...I would sit for weeks without seeing a buck and then when that poor lil spike walked in I shot him...With the 3 point rule in place I have sits where I would see 18 bucks and pass em all during the rut!!!!!!!!!!!!! it works and I see more deer and most important more bucks.......If you believe that if a doe gets bread by a spike and you say hes a scrub buck, that isnt the truth either....he could have good genes but is too young yet to show it....and ive read that recent studies now show that the doe holds more weight in what the antlers look like on their offspring..... I hunt in NJ and just because you dont see huge bucks on your property that you hunt doesnt mean that the lil four pointer is doing all the breeding.....Most of the bucks I have on my wall now i've never seen before and why? because they rome miles during the rut to breed everything they can and show themselves during the daylight hours.....so leave that lil "scrub" buck alone and let him grow up and wait for that ROMER to walk on by, you wont regret it.... Another thing i've learned is keep the does in your area.. I bait in certain places just to keep the does coming....these does are my bait pile during the rut for those ROMERS....If I shoot the does and they leave my area so do the bucks during the rut.(ive done that in the past)...When the carhood sized scrapes and the rubs start showing up in that area I get excited because I know that when the rut goes into full swing I will get into that stand and have my choice of buck......leave the does alone until after the rut, then shoot your meat......
Best time to hunt is first week, catching those bachelor group bucks still in their summer patterns.. Near fields and food plots and maybe on a bait pile....then of course the rut....so dont get all discouraged during the late sept and early oct. days when your not seeing the good bucks....they are there just noctournal.....they dont get that head gear for being stupid....but if you dont care about horns and meat is what you want then shoot away.....but me doing it this way I never have a problem with meat and I am able to keep my taxidermist in business.....Just a couple from my wall (cant get them all in the picture) thanks to QDM....

[BUCKSHOT]

Wow nice trophy room are they all jerz deer
WHO IS YOUR TAXIDERMIST NICE WORK

[MattG]

Bingo Quinton, good post.

[QuintonZ29]

Yes they are...all on my property within the last few years....QDM works if you can get everyone on the same page....15 years ago when I started hunting this property it wasnt this good..I was mad when they first started the 3 point rule but it taught me something......Deer need time to grow, wether you think they are scrubs or not.....They need time before you can judge their potential, not at 1 1/2 years old.....Nowadays I pass deer that people would love to shoot...If you told me that 15 years ago I would have laughed in your face....Now if I can just get my neighbors to stop shooting illegal spikes and junk I will be even better off....I dont care if they make it a state wide rule because we have it in my zone for now...it works.... but the proofs in my taxidermy bill every year.....Ribs in Turnersville does all my work...hes the man..

[BUCKSHOT]

Ribs did my ten pointer no compairison to the other deer on the wall if i kill something bigger than the ten ill be going back to him
little pricy long wait but its worth it

[stephenf]

Gregg Ribbs does the best work I have seen! his mounts look as good 10 years later as they do the day you pick them up .

[Barrell]

Hey Jim...I would say that there are two sides to this argument...Some say that the 3 on one side is actually hurting the deer quality...Shooting only bucks with atleast 3 points on one side allows many deer to get killed that are larger...with this concept the scrub bucks and smaller bucks then are impregnating the does with inferior genes...I dont remember where I read it but it was in a magazine like Deed & Deer hunting or something like that...Just a theory to kick around...what do you guys feel about that? (Not agreeing with what I read...just putting it out for discussion):thup:
Like quiton posted...small bucks are not inferior, they are just younger. A spike is a sign of the does being bred to late. Mature does go into quik heat that only last a few hours in October. They urinate in the scrapes that will be come the hot (primary) scapes in November. Around the 10th to 15th in our area. Now if the buck to doe ratio is scewered and there are to many does some does wont be bred in Novemebr. They will come back into heat 28 days later in December and any does that are still not bred will come into heat 28 days later in January. Spikes are a result of this late breeding as all antler growth stops on the same day in late summer. So a spike or even a small forkie can be 4 to 8 weeks younger then his cousins who have a larger body and rack at 18 months old.
After the body matures at 3 1/2 years of age the racks on the young deer catch up to their cousins.
Idealy the buck /doe ratio should be 50/50. If the population is balanced the rut will be way more exciting and agressive and all the does will be bred in Novemebr like they should be. This results in larger fatter fawns going into the next winter and having a better chance at survival.

Does prefer bing bred by a mature buck and will not always stand still for a young buck. Once in my deer hunting life I saw something that ive never seen before or after. It was the rut when one of the biggest bucks ive ever seen came out of the oaks down toward the swamp. About 20 yards behind this buck were at least 20 doe in a tight pack their bodies rubbing together. The buck ignored them as he was trailing a doe that had gone by me 1/2 hour before. They were not ignoring him however. They watched his every move in awe. When he would take 3 steps forward the whole harem would take 3 steps in unison. When he took one step they took one step. He continued to ignore them as he moved past me at 40 yards and I helplessly tossed all 4 of my arrows at his feet. He finaly decided to go back where he came from. He walked right past the pack of does not even looking at them as they all turned their heads staring at him. When he was about 20 yeards away from them the whole group spun 180 degrees and followed him back into the oaks. I never saw him again but heard a week later Port gun club killed a 14 pointer in that woods.

[QuintonZ29]

Hey Barrell same thing happens when I go to the bar.....I stay with the hot one whos ready to bread...the heck with all the others ....ha ha...:cheers:.....

[MattG]

Gregg Ribbs does the best work I have seen! his mounts look as good 10 years later as they do the day you pick them up .

Yeah Steve, both my brother and I have had a few mounts done by Ribb's, and we have a bunch of other mounts from a bunch of different taxidermists, but Ribb's work is the best, bar none. One of the guys in our PA club got into taxidermy about 10 years ago, so now he does all our work from PA, for the price, we simply can't beat it, but if i ever get a booner, i may have to pay the xtra for Ribb's to do it.

[onthehunt]

Not to hijack, but Ribbs did my best muzzleloader deer and I was very satisfied to say the least:bow:. Let them grow if you can, we have good potential in jersey to grow some nice ones.

[Margaritaville]

Nice wall.
They look like salem county bucks
I love the pedestal wall mounts. My brother is a taxidermist and has done several for his customers since the mount came available