Division predicts number of added crossbow hunters

[DV1]

Since it seems the crossbows issue is a done deal, let’s see what the Division and Fish and Game Council really believe will happen when they are legalized across the board.

We have speculated as to what the official number of hunters added to bow season will be, but we really don’t have to speculate much, since the Division’s survey is supposed to be “scientifically sound” and accurate, even being compared to other surveys and polls such as gallop and the like to prove it’s validity, when applied to the entire hunting population in New Jersey (According to the Division, 85,957 hunters). This survey actually asked the question that tells us how many more hunters we will have in bow season, and how many hunters will use crossbows in bow season. It is question number 6, summarized on page four of the survey.

If you believe all the data they produced that show crossbow use is very popular in NJ, and you believe the survey is “scientifically sound” and accurate, then you must also believe this bit of data from page four. This gives us an idea of what the actual increase in hunters for bow season will be: more data from the survey...



When broken down by user group, the majority of hunters still agree they will use a crossbow now: bow & gun hunters, 62%; gun-only hunters, 59%, bow-only hunters, 54%.


Just using the number of gun-only hunters (since they would be the additional hunters during bow season), we find an incredible increase of approximately 30,152 the first year (85,957 hunters, minus the 34,851 bow hunters leaves 51,106 gun only hunters. 59% of those gun-only hunters that, according to the survey, "will use a crossbow now" = 30,152.) If you believe the survey is “scientifically sound” and accurate, this is what will happen.

And this from page four as well...

Respondents were asked how likely they were to hunt with a crossbow now, if legalized. The majority of all respondents (60%) will likely use a crossbow.
60 percent (of the 85,957 hunters in NJ) translates to approximately 51,574 hunters, likely to be in the woods in bow season, just with crossbows. That doesn’t include those who will be hunting with bows.

This data is right from the survey. If you believe the survey is as touted, “scientifically sound” and accurate, and you beleive the other numbers from the survey that show the idea of crossbow hunting as being so popular in NJ, then you must believe these numbers are accurate as well.

So, we either believe the survey is accurate, and we accept these numbers: approximately 30,152 additional hunters in bow season the first year, or we don’t believe the survey is accurate and we can disregard these numbers, but then we can disregard the rest of the numbers that support the idea crossbows are very popular among all hunters in NJ.

If you are going to tout the survey as being so “scientifically sound” and accurate in it’s projection of how popular crossbows are in NJ, then you have to accept it’s accuracy in projecting the additional hunters in New Jersey’s archery season. Those numbers come in at approximately 30,152, now, as the survey revealed. Remember this, if the Division and Fish and Game Council really believe this survey is what they say it is, they already know these numbers.

These are facts and data from the survey. How these facts affect New Jersey’s bow season (if the survey is accurate) is opinion, and you can decide that on your own.

One more time…do you really believe that survey is accurate? If so, what do you believe will happen with approximately 30,152 more hunters in the woods next bow season?

[QuintonZ29]

Good info. but bad to hear...sounds like another case of the state using misguided numbers of deer population and wanting more harvested....If this is true then look for alot shorter deer seasons and less allowed deer harvest per person...on top of over crowded state and public lands....
I cant help but to think that the state had other motives....approx. 30,000 more bow/crowsbow hunters during archery seasons equals 30,000 more archery licenses sold.....30,000 x $31.50 = $945,000 now add 30,000 plus the permit for extended archery season at $28.00= $840,000..now if each cross bow archer bought 1 buck stub for each season at $28.00 a pieces..30,000x $56.00=$1,680,000

$945,000+$840,000+$1,680,000= $3,465,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

add in winter bow30,000x$28.00 for buck stub=another $$840,000 !!!

Pretty attractive if your sitting in the seat that has to vote for or against it isnt it. Do you really think that the states motive was to help out or give something to the hunters? Money makes the world go round......

[MattG]

The states motives are to use the hunters....to put themselves out of business and make money off them at the same time so they can either turn our game lands into state parks for the bird watchers, develop them, or simpy to leave them void of deer to appease the special interests...namely the anti's and the insurance co's.

[QuintonZ29]

Funny but the Insurance companies do carry weight on this issue...Motor vehicle crashes involving deer put a dent in their pockets every year...

["String Music"]

This is why I have been adamently against Crossbows at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a money making scheme by the state....They do not care about the quality of the deer hunting in this state...This is about money coming into the state....And all you liberal jerks who think this is a great idea...you guys need to get your head checked....They dont use the money now from our licenses and permits for the better good for hunting....Its just going to ruin the quality of hunting in New Jersey as we know it! It's over populated now and it will get worst in a hurry! This state sucks!:thdown:

[Liv2hunt]

Who remembers how empty the woods were during muzzleloader before the increase of in-lines, scopes, etc.....I think this will be much worse:o

[stephenf]

I have no problem with the inclusion of a cross gun season . I dont feel it belongs in bowseason. I think they need to make the liscense another safety test as they did with muzzleloader. i think they need to ban driving of deer untill 6 day firearm season. and NO driving deer with crossguns! I think i am going to have my hands full now all season from sept to fab with having to escort people off of the ground the know they dont belong. The sportsmans club i belong to the other night I heard guys talking about the driving of deer during the bow seasons and with the foliage still intact and no hunter orange on is a recipe for disaster.

[Drenalin1]

What a joke. Is there anything that real bowhunters could do to stop this insanity? I was against this before I heard all the numbers now Im ready to start pickiting. Who comes up with this sh*t.. Where is all this new money going to go to?:fight::nuts::nuts::thdown::thdown::thdown::thd own:

[JJV79]

Come on we all know the reason crossbows will be legal; MONEY!!!!!!

I don't believe the results of their survey anyway. I don't know how many of you are aware but there was a survey sent out to "random" people last year, hunters and non-hunters. I personally recieved one in the mail that I promptly returned with no in almost every box with the exception of the elderly and disabled. I know a few other hunters who recieved the survey and they all responded the same. I've probably talked to about 25 people on this subject and only had 2 guys say that they were in favor of using crossbows, yet the njdep reports that they had a 97% favorable return?
Supposedly there isn't going to be additional liscensing fees to use a crossbow either but I find that hard to believe. On top of that will crossbow hunters be required to take a hunter education course? You have to take another for muzzleloader, which is another joke all it's own (the test).

While I'm ranting how the he{{ did we let them get away with the bonus "buy a buck" program? Wow! Just keep tacking it to us.... And still no Sunday hunting.:please:

[bobmetzg]

i will be more then happy to spend my money in another state, if thats what it comes to. this state is slowly pushing the hunters out. they are just trying to get every nickel they can from you, like they did with the buck tax started last year. this states run by people who could care a less about hunting we are just a cash cow going into the general state fund. i cant be in the woods with some dope that thinks he can shoot 100yds with a crossbow, in low light through brush. ive said it before the crossbow will bring the wrong people into the woods.

[onthehunt]

I bet if you ask "Average Joe Hunter" how far the effective range of a crossbow is, you will shake your head. I can hear it now,"I just put this new 3x9 scope on and I'm like good to 70yds:huh:. It aint gonna be pretty.

[boatliftman]

this state would be happy if it was deerless

[Drenalin1]

WE ARE DOOMED:thdown:

[R & R]

Come on we all know the reason crossbows will be legal; MONEY!!!!!!

I don't believe the results of their survey anyway. I don't know how many of you are aware but there was a survey sent out to "random" people last year, hunters and non-hunters. I personally recieved one in the mail that I promptly returned with no in almost every box with the exception of the elderly and disabled. I know a few other hunters who recieved the survey and they all responded the same. I've probably talked to about 25 people on this subject and only had 2 guys say that they were in favor of using crossbows, yet the njdep reports that they had a 97% favorable return?
Supposedly there isn't going to be additional liscensing fees to use a crossbow either but I find that hard to believe. On top of that will crossbow hunters be required to take a hunter education course? You have to take another for muzzleloader, which is another joke all it's own (the test).

While I'm ranting how the he{{ did we let them get away with the bonus "buy a buck" program? Wow! Just keep tacking it to us.... And still no Sunday hunting.:please:
The largest bowhunting org in the state did a survey & 50% of their members supported xbow in the 09 season.
Enough with the what if's guys. Only time will tell.

[bluecollar$]

The largest bowhunting org in the state did a survey & 50% of their members supported xbow in the 09 season.
Enough with the what if's guys. Only time will tell.
and that would mean 50% didn't...So what is your point? Every person I've spoken to that bow hunts is against it, as well a large % at 3-d shoots.

Where can said survey results be found???

[Setterman]

Who remembers how empty the woods were during muzzleloader before the increase of in-lines, scopes, etc.....I think this will be much worse:o
I agree. The high-tech equipment brings out more people. Better equipment conjures up the words "easier" and "less work". Early muzzleloader seasons saw die-hard traditonalists with their loose powder in powderhorns. The more high-tech guys carried their powder in plastic film cannisters!

[Drenalin1]

Where do these survey numbers come from. I talk to alot of REAL bowhunters and they are dead set against this x bow nightmare. Who actually do they send theses surveys to? Probably to the guys that havent renewed there bow permits in a couple years. R & R were do you come up with this stuff?:nuts:

[DV1]

Enough with the what if's guys. Only time will tell.

Actually, according to the Division, the numbers at the beginning of this thread...the ones from the highly touted survey... are "scientifically sound" and accurate, and they claim they DO know. If you are saying these numbers are not accurate, then you are saying the survey is not accurate.

[R & R]

R & R were do you come up with this stuff?:nuts:
The UBNJ. Don't beleive me ask your local Rep.

[Drenalin1]

The UBNJ. Don't beleive me ask your local Rep.
Im a member of the UBNJ and havent heard any of these numbers. Can anyone on here from the UBNJ confirm these numbers? 50/50

[JJV79]

You can see results for the survey on the njdep website. Just go there and follow the links, it's been awhile since I've looked at it. :thdown:

[JJV79]

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2008/xbowsurvey07.pdf

Click here to read all about the survey.

[bluecollar$]

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2008/xbowsurvey07.pdf

Yes they did a survey and included less then 3% of all lic. hunters in NJ:confused:
..... That seem wierd?

[Drenalin1]

I just read the numbers again and cannot beleive they are accurate. I keep in touch with about 20 hunters and and only one or two has liked this insane idea the state has come up with about xbows during archery season. On bassbarn I have seen guys set up polls for various things just to see what everyone really thinks.. Just for sh*ts and giggles I would love to see what the real numbers would be if it was done on a site devoted to hunting. It would be simple mathmatics from there. I really do not want to be in the woods with the xbow hunters next year. It will be the downfall of bowhunting in Jersey.:thdown:

[DV1]

I just read the numbers again and cannot beleive they are accurate.

That survey makes alot of bold statements about just how popular crossbows are in NJ. If those numbers are correct, and 30,000+ additional bow licenses are sold next year, and 51,000+ people are in the woods just with crossbows in bow season, we will know the survey IS accurate. If the numbers are not even close to that, well, I guess will will know that survey wasn't even close to being accurate and proably not even worth the cost of the paper to print out a copy.

If it goes through as planned, I guess we will see.

Just remember though, that bow license sales have been on the increase the last few years. 2005 was the low point and more licenses were sold in 2006 and 2007 than in 2005. Hunter education classes have been filled over capacity this year too, so a small increase is to be expected even without crossbows.

[R & R]

I just read the numbers again and cannot beleive they are accurate. I keep in touch with about 20 hunters and and only one or two has liked this insane idea the state has come up with about xbows during archery season. On bassbarn I have seen guys set up polls for various things just to see what everyone really thinks.. Just for sh*ts and giggles I would love to see what the real numbers would be if it was done on a site devoted to hunting. It would be simple mathmatics from there. I really do not want to be in the woods with the xbow hunters next year. It will be the downfall of bowhunting in Jersey.:thdown:
First... The UBNJ had a poll themselves & it was almost split 50/50.
Second.... Do you really think we need to waste F&G $$$$ on surveying all hunters.
Third..... Its not about you& your season or your deer. There are alot of other hunters that might enjoy useing an xbow. Don't like it?? Don't use it...
Forth..... I kind of sure that the state might know a little better than yourself how to form numbers from state surveys... simple math was all ready used on the first survey.
Last.. If you don't want to be in the woods with xbows you might have to travel a good bit to hunt. Only NY has no xbow season.

[R & R]

Just remember though, that bow license sales have been on the increase the last few years. 2005 was the low point and more licenses were sold in 2006 and 2007 than in 2005. Hunter education classes have been filled over capacity this year too, so a small increase is to be expected even without crossbows.
Can you plz. show the numbers? Thanks randy.

[DV1]

Can you plz. show the numbers? Thanks randy.


2005=34,685
2006=35,557
2007=34,851
2008=??? we'll see. If the enrollment at hunter ed classes are any indication, there should be another increase.

Last.. If you don't want to be in the woods with xbows you might have to travel a good bit to hunt. Only NY has no xbow season.

That is not exactly true either. As of the conclusion of the last deer season (2007-2008), only seven (7) of the 50 states allowed crossbow use in the manner New Jersey is proposing. Some other states allow them for those over 65 years old, some have a short season that overlaps bow season in part, and some allow them only in the late season. Most allow them for handicapped only, but again, over 82 percent of the states do not allow full crossbow inclusion, like NJ has proposed. I realize the Digest was very misleading on that point, but hey, they really, really want this. What did you expect from a bunch of politicians.

[R & R]

3 years does not make a trend & if so the "FACTS" say we lost 700+ 06 to 07.

As far as what states have xbow seasons I was refering to our boarding states.
PA..yup
De... Yup
Md. Sure
NY.. No

[H&R slugger]

personally i cant wait

[DV1]

personally i cant wait

Do you bow hunt now?

[H&R slugger]

i used to

[R & R]

I bow hunt & will use both..

[Drenalin1]

I bow hunt & will use both..
Not only am I worried about yahoo peckers like you running around with that kinda firepower, I am also worried about the deer population. The future dosent look bright for any kind of deer hunter.

[DV1]

i used to

Why did you stop? Honestly please, you'll get no ridicule from me.

[R & R]

Not only am I worried about yahoo peckers like you running around with that kinda firepower, I am also worried about the deer population. The future dosent look bright for any kind of deer hunter.

Sorry I'm not the type on stuck up bowhunter you are but I would be willing to bet I shoot a hell of alot more than yourself.
The only pecker in this thread is yourself. Your just another booHoo crier.
I can now understand why you resort to name calling... You act like a 6 year old.
Weapons have nothing to do with bag limits. They are two different issues.
BTW I too thgink they need to readdress bag limits in all the zones & more so on WMA's.

[bluecollar$]

R&R is not a pecker.He just think he knows everything about every issue included in hunting. The survey included less then 3% of hunters, why even do one? They knew what they wanted to see.$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I can't wait to see my first x bows drive coming through the woods......Sad state,thats why everyone I know is goes out of state alot more then they use to....It cost the same to go to Ill. as it does to buy the permits here.....

PS- F' xbows and inline MZ......:thup:

[R & R]

R&R is not a pecker.He just think he knows everything about every issue included in hunting. The survey included less then 3% of hunters, why even do one? They knew what they wanted to see.$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I can't wait to see my first x bows drive coming through the woods......Sad state,thats why everyone I know is goes out of state alot more then they use to....It cost the same to go to Ill. as it does to buy the permits here.....

PS- F' xbows and inline MZ......:thup:
I can't know everything BC.. Thats your job.
I also know its great for the sport to keep calling any hunter other than a bow hunter ..slob/lazy/scum.
People already do alot of drives with compound bows so whats your point?
BTW grow up & leave your petty childish drama at the other site Sport.

[Drenalin1]

I can't know everything BC.. Thats your job.
I also know its great for the sport to keep calling any hunter other than a bow hunter ..slob/lazy/scum.
People already do alot of drives with compound bows so whats your point?
BTW grow up & leave your petty childish drama at the other site Sport.
This is why I hunt outta state as much as I do. To many people in NJ with the R & R disease.

[Drenalin1]

Weapons have nothing to do with bag limits. They are two different issues.

DUH...:nuts:

[bluecollar$]

I can't know everything BC.. Thats your job.
I also know its great for the sport to keep calling any hunter other than a bow hunter ..slob/lazy/scum.
People already do alot of drives with compound bows so whats your point?
BTW grow up & leave your petty childish drama at the other site Sport.
I never said they were lazy scum. Bow hunters spend much more time in the woods and have to dedicate more time to be succesful.Yes or NO?

I bid you farewell as I go to sleep only to awaken to get in a truck and drive 30 hours to a DIY hunt, you guessed it, with my trusty bow and arrow. Have fun paging through Cabelas picking out your new X Bow.:wave:

[R & R]

---

[algdog]

I am all for more freedoms in this state.
if they give us more choices there will be more people interested in hunting
that's a good thing.
tell a guy he has to use a particular weapon, lots of people will not be interested, exept the few special interests who want the legislation

like putting a ban on all compounds. only let people shoot longbows.

if you want to bowhunt do it with what ever you like.longbow, recurve, compound. whatever. it would be nice if the state gave us a little freedom to hunt with a different weapon.

I don't see the limit issue coming into effect. you need private property now to have a good spot. the public woods have never had alot of deer and imo
never will.

now let's get some more freedom, how about online deer checking.
so I don't have to drive 2hrs round trip to check in a deer.

and while I'm at it. lets re institute the bear hunt.