PGC votes to allow x-bows in 2009

[Makoman]

On Tuesday, Jan 27th, the PGC voted to approve the use of crossbows during the regular archery season for deer and bear. They prohibited the use of magnifying scopes and added a provision to revisit the subject in 2012 to determine the effects of this decision.

[Offshore Custom Tackle]

Pa. ?

on tuesday, jan 27th, the pgc voted to approve the use of crossbows during the regular archery season for deer and bear. They prohibited the use of magnifying scopes and added a provision to revisit the subject in 2012 to determine the effects of this decision.

[Ole 20 Point]

Pa. ?Yes, PGC is Penna. Game commission.

[MattG]

Game management in PA has been going the way of NJ for several years now, they no longer manage the states game in the interest of the hunters, rather they manage to the interest of special interests who would like to do away with the deer, and in turn, hunting. It's no surprise when you look at the similiarity of the states government these days. Sad.

[MattG]

Amazing how 7 people can decide on what the million hunters in the state of PA want :rolleyes: They should have sent a survey to everyone who bought a bow license and let the people who pay for them decide before making such a controversial decision. As it was, they held a public meeting...well all those who've been to public meeting related to our fisheries know how well they work...waste of time, they never consider the publics input and that's exactly what happened in PA with the crossbow issue. Those who attended were 4-1 against the full inclusion of crossbows, yet that didn't sway the voters at all! Surprise, surprise...NOT!

The more i read about it, the more pissed off I get. Apparently many, many thousands of PA Hunters wrote to their state legislators over the past year against x-bows, but ofcourse it fell on deaf ears!!! More gov't corruption is what it is, we all know how politics work, of those letters to the gov't 80-90% were against x bows, yet they throw the people under the bus in favor of the Xbow manufacturers who greased the pockets !!!

All they give a sh!t about is the increase in license fees this will inevitably bring and the revenues they got from the X-bow manufacturers. Well, I got news for them. This "bow hunter" will not be purchasing a bow license ever again, lets see how that grabs them! If the state is going to exclude the people in their decisions, lets exclude them where it hurts, thier pocket! I'll "bow hunt" more and on Sundays too F THEM!!!! Just like they said F U to the millions who've purchased "bow licenses" from them since the inception of bow licenses!

Who's with me? :fight:

[Mark G]

I am besides myself! I can't beleive it! This is not fair! The PGC should have sent a petition (problem is they r too cheap to even mail letters out) out to every hunter who purchased a PA bow license last year to ask the them vote yes or no to cross bows in PA! This is not what the people want, it's what the PA state government wants so they can get more Money. This is government control at its worse, (just goes to show you who runs things, and its not the people! what a crock of crap) I am going to think long and hard about purchasing a bow and arrow license in PA next year! I am going to write a letter to the game commision and express my displeasure with this decision! What a slap in the face to traditonal archers who have been boe and arrow hunting for years! A cross bow is a gun with an arrow attached to it because the string is not held back by ones own arm strength! I am so pissed! This is all about the $ the PA state government wants, and nothing else! I have been dumpoing money into the PA state economy for years to enjoy traditiona archery hunting, and I don't think i can buy a bow license next year because i refuse to support this decision! WTF am I gonna do, I feel so friggen powerless, and I feel like I got slapped in the face, because it wasn't a fair vote, the people did not vote this in, 4 aholes in the PGA did for theri special interets called more $ for the govt! Jeez

[MattG]

Yeah, what ever happened to gov't for the people, by the people?!?! That is the issue with what transpired here that should chap every ones arse whether you were for x-bows, or against them!!!

[Makoman]

It has been the same story with the concurrent doe hunting issue. The hunters were against it by a very large margin but the PGC ignored their input and went with the commercial interests.

[MattG]

Righto Makoman! So, when does the revolution start? :fight: With PA gov't going the same route as NJ for so long now, this was bound to happen. Plus, when PA's Gov heads the Chair of one of the most corrupt interstate (with NJ) agencies in the nation, you should expect it!

[eastcoasthunter]

That's just Great:thdown: Now you will have that many more people hunting archery that would have not been in the woods before. One thing I think most of the PA hunters have in common is the agreement that the quality of bucks has increased dramatically due to the 3 point rule. Now with the legalization of crossbow hunting there will be more archers (I mean hunters) in the woods and more bucks being shot before the rut. I am sure the numbers of bucks will begin to decline as the doe population has since the concurrent anterless season was implemented.

A friend of mine has been archery hunting for nine years without taking a deer in Chester county. He missed more than his fair share during that time. This past year he purchased a crossbow and took a 7 Pt buck and two does. I am sure there will be many more hunters that will have more/new success:rolleyes:

I think Cross bow hunting has it place and that is in the Special Regulations zones and during the Flint Lock season.

[Ole 20 Point]

Re the bowhunters should have gotten a vote about the xbow issue: hahahahahahaha! Yeah that'll happen...NEVER.

As far as the PGC voting in a different direction than "what the people wanted": What else is new?

Re the compound being so much more difficult to set up and requiring a bunch more expertise than a xgun: Don't think so. I take the bow to the shop for adjustments, buy arrows, screw on the broadheads, practice a bit whenever I can, go to my spot, and kill a deer. I started out bowhunter by shooting fingers with a 35% letoff. It's WAY easier today with the releases and 80% letoff. (Never should have let those compound hunters in the woods I tell ya! :D)

I get it that bowhunters (public land especially) do not want to be crowded with newcomers and I don't blame them if that fear becomes reality. But I really see no great advantages with the xbow vs. todays compounds other than not having to draw on the deer at the moment of truth. As a compound bowhunter I consider the draw back as part of the fun, but not the huge disadvantage some would like us to believe.

[MattG]

Re the compound being so much more difficult to set up and requiring a bunch more expertise than a xgun: Don't think so. I take the bow to the shop for adjustments, buy arrows, screw on the broadheads, practice a bit whenever I can, go to my spot, and kill a deer. I started out bowhunter by shooting fingers with a 35% letoff. It's WAY easier today with the releases and 80% letoff. (Never should have let those compound hunters in the woods I tell ya! :D)

Ole 20 pt, the bolded section pretty much takes the credibility away from your argument.

You are in the vast minority of seasoned bow hunters who beleives that there isn't much of an advantage to using a crossbow...with a scope, a rest and drawn back already for you.

Atleast you agree that the State Gov't - The PGC in this case doesn't give a cr^p what the people want and that should be enough for you to be against this decision.

[Ole 20 Point]

Ole 20 pt, the bolded section pretty much takes the credibility away from your argument.
How so? Please clarify. I don't know what you mean by this statement.

The point is that you can pick up a compound bow and essentially shoot and hit the target with minimal effort...the degree of difficulty just isn't that hard. I'm not talking about being a sharp shooter by any means.

You are in the vast minority of seasoned bow hunters who beleives that there isn't much of an advantage to using a crossbow...with a scope, a rest and drawn back already for you.And I believe that many are making a mountain out of a molehill. Believe me the old timer "seasoned bowhunters" were screaming as loud as you are when the compound was approved. The point I made is that the xgun "advantages" over todays compounds are no more than when I started shooting fingers with ONLY 35% letoff vs. the releases now available and the current ability to hold a LONG time at 80% letoff with today's compounds. It is incredibly easier now to hold longer and shoot more accurately than when I started. Technology goes forward...it amazes me that so many can easily accept the tecnological increases that occurred with today's compounds but can't accept it with the xbow.

[BarnesX.308]

While I agree that there was a similar outcry when the compound was legalized from the longbow and recurve crowd, the crossbow is another story.

Let's not look at it in a "how much easier" is it light. Let's think about hunter participation. How many bozos who would never take the time to take up archery hunting will run out and get a crossbow now? How many will practice as much as they do with their deer rifles (once the day before the season)? How many people will have a false sense of confidence with this crossbow and take shots that should never be taken with an arrow?

I'd be in agreement with a special week long season. But all archery season? Too much.

Also, the point is that the PGC didn't not listen to what the hunters wanted. Hunters have been begging for Sunday hunting for decades and never get it. Hunters opposed this and got it. How about doing something to make the hunters happy for once?

[MattG]

Righto Barnes X good Points

Ole 20 point, no sense arguing about it with you, you don't seem to get it. While yes, the compound bow has come a long way, you still have to tune it properly, draw it, hold it steady and release it cleanly to shoot it accurately and i don't what you're definition of a marksman is, but as a sportsmen, I beleive you should be damned close to one with your bow before you ethically try to hunt a deer with one. The crossbow is so much easier to get right into and shoot accurately enough to ethically hunt with it's loaded arrow, no tuning, scope and fact you can rest it on anything for a steady hold, it's going to bring the yahoos out of the woodwork...and that's exactly what they want, more people to buy licenses inorder to increase their revenues for now and allow the hunters to pay them while putting ourselves out of business when we reduce the deer herd to the point it won't be worth hunting anymore, then they'll use that money to make the gamelands bird sanctuaries for the bird watchers or sell them to the lumber or development co's at the highest bid! Throw in the fact that this is the thanks those who've purchased bow licenses all these years get for keeping the game comission in business, and it really chaps your arse!

[jameytree]

If you really want to be nauseated check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdWkBJ4sdU&eurl=http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/marylandwhitetail/vpost?id=3261044&trail=15&feature=player_embedded

[Makoman]

I am curious as to how many non bow hunters will actually take the time to take the bow hunting course in order to get their license? Or will PA and NJ require a separate course for those who choose to use a crossbow? I would think that crossbow hunters would be required to pass a different test than traditional bow hunters. One more opportunity for the states to pull in more cash!!!!!

[Ole 20 Point]

Ole 20 point, no sense arguing about it with you, you don't seem to get it.I get it perfectly...we simply disagree. No big deal bud.

While yes, the compound bow has come a long way, you still have to tune it properly, draw it, hold it steady and release it cleanly to shoot it accurately...I get my bow tuned at the bow shop since I have no clue how to do it nor do I care to. I have taught kids in ten minutes to hit a balloon with a compound bow. OK, maybe that's 6 minutes longer than it would take to teach a xbow. However in EACH case, bow or xbow, killing a deer ain't as easy and that’s where the seasoned hunter and proficiency with a weapon comes into play. But even with a xbow you still have to lift it (i.e. draw) with a deer in close range, find the deer in the scope (peep), pick the right distance line in the scope (choose bead), hold steady (same), pull the trigger (release TRIGGER), and hold steady until the arrow hits the mark.

...it's going to bring the yahoos out of the woodwork...and that's exactly what they want, more people to buy licenses in order to increase their revenues for now and allow the hunters to pay themAh, now here's the rub. The real concern is it will bring more hunters into the woods. I have already agreed in another post that I understand the concerns of the public land hunters potentially seeing more competition for the good spots. If it happens to the degree ya’ll seem to fear, I agree that does suck.

In any case I'd be willing to bet that many of those "yahoos" are current gun hunters and I'll also bet many of them just might be seasoned deer hunters too. I was one of those gun to bow yahoos about 30 years ago. I’d like to think I am now a seasoned bow hunter.

…while putting ourselves out of business when we reduce the deer herd to the point it won't be worth hunting anymore, then they'll use that money to make the gamelands bird sanctuaries for the bird watchers or sell them to the lumber co's at the highest bid.When all that happens I’ll buy you a beer.

[Ole 20 Point]

How many bozos who would never take the time to take up archery hunting will run out and get a crossbow now?Just a guess but maybe about the same percentage that the compound crowd did when that was legalized?

How many will practice as much as they do with their deer rifles (once the day before the season)? How many people will have a false sense of confidence with this crossbow and take shots that should never be taken with an arrow?When they don’t kill any deer they’ll prolly quit anyway.

I'd be in agreement with a special week long season. But all archery season? Too much.How many days would such bozos even bother to hunt? The whole archery season? Nah.

Also, the point is that the PGC didn't not listen to what the hunters wanted. Hunters have been begging for Sunday hunting for decades and never get it. Hunters opposed this and got it. How about doing something to make the hunters happy for once?Agreed.

[jameytree]

I'm not very happy about the decision, I wish they would have at least mandated crossbow ed and proficiency testing. Too many yahoos are going to go to wally world the day before the season opens screw on some broadheads and try to go hunting. I do most of my hunting in the SRA where crossbows have already been legal for a few years......I've already run into a few guys that had no business being in the woods with an x-gun. I realize that they can be an effective weapon in the right persons hands but one must understand that these things have limitations. There are too many people out there who view these things as guns.........no clue what can happen between pulling the trigger and impact at the outside end of effective range. And now with PSE marketing that beast of a gun in video clip I posted...............No way that thing should be legal outside of firearms season. They are boasting of 1 hole groups at 100 yards! If they push that as a selling point....yikes! There is a big difference between punching paper and shooting live animals. There are going to be a lot of guys out in the woods that don't understand that.

[BarnesX.308]

The only good that could come of this is it drives down the local cost of a "vertical" bow so I can afford a new one :D.

It's funny. The crossbow has been taboo for as long as I can remember. Then, all of a sudden, it's legal in archert season.

Luckily, they put in a sunset clause so they can undo it if it proves to be no good. Although four years is a little too long. Too much damage could be done.

And remember guys - you'll never get a P&Y with a crossbow. :p

[Ole 20 Point]

There is ONLY ONE WAY the sunset clause will even be considered. That's if all the yahoos and bozos that pick up a xgun start wounding or killing each other. ;)

[MattG]

Ok Ole 20 pt. thanks, though here's a simple suggestion for you. If you don't care, or are happy about the decision....don't say anything. There's no need to pour salt into the wounds of the majority of us who obviously do care, are upset about the decision and need to vent. There were plenty of other threads going around before the decision was made to add your 2 cents on whether you are for or against x-bows, you made your point there. Now that the decision has been made, let those who aren't happy about it vent, no need to chap our arse about it.

What it came down to was ofcourse all about money. From the bow co's who want to expand their market to xbows, the existing xbow manufacturers who want to sell more and the money they greased state gov't with to allow them to expand the market while providing them another tool to increase license revenues and further reduce the deer herd. As usual in todays gov't, money comes first, the hunters, tradition and the effect it will have on the good of the hunting, last. Surprise, surprise....NOT!

I for one won't be purchasing any more new bows or an xbow. I have 3 bows from 20 to 1 year old already, and those are what i'll be hunting with until I'm done. F all these greedy bassturds!

[Ole 20 Point]

Ok Ole 20 pt. thanks, though here's a simple suggestion for you. If you don't care, or are happy about the decision....don't say anything.Ah yes sir...I get it now. Accept your opinion, don't express mine. ;)

Here's a suggestion for you...go start a yes man forum. Whatever you say...all that can be said is "yes man".

Good luck with your mission to f'em over.

[MattG]

Great, then I'm glad we're clear :D Ya might wanna note that you're the only one for them that's posted on this thread full of us who are venting against this decision that went against the majority. While you're at it note that sometimes it's better to just leave things unsaid if it's just going to stir the sh!t.

Enjoy your crossgun hunting, hope you stick a monster in the goodies with a bolt at 80 yards :eek:

[Ole 20 Point]

Great, then I'm glad we're clear :D Ya might wanna note that you're the only one for them that's posted on this thread full of us who are venting against this decision that went against the majority. While you're at it note that sometimes it's better to just leave things unsaid if it's just going to stir the sh!t.All this thread proves is those that DON'T like something generally scream the loudest and most often. :fight: ;)

Enjoy your crossgun hunting, hope you stick a monster at 80 yards :bow:Nah, don't even own one and am not in the market for one. I'm waiting for them to perfect those suckers so they'll weigh only 4 lbs, reach out to 100 yards, with no noise, and operate via remote control. :D Anyway, I still enjoy the compound and am looking for an upgrade there for next season.