270Win or 7mm?

[ACEarcher]

Which of the two cartridges will pack more of a punch at ranges 200yds-300yds a 270Win or a 7mm? Lay it all on me! Just curious.

[Makoman]

I would opt for the .270 WSM.

[Darrin Greene]

7mm rem mag or 7mm 08?

[Darrin Greene]

never mind here is the chart for both

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRC270WB* PRC7MMRA*R7M081

As expected, the 7mm Rem Mag has the most downrange punch using the same bullet weight as the 270 Win cartridge

[WoodsHunter]

Have a 7M/M-08, Remington Model-7 great cartridge, great rifle.
Short stroke bolt, light to carry, good down range numbers.
If you want long stroke bolt, the 7M/M Mag. is the way to go.
Use a 140Gr. in the 7M/M-08
Use a 160Gr. in the 7M/M Mag.
Both in premium bullets.

[Pagrizz]

I have a 270 and a 7mm mag .My 270 likes a 130gr bullet and my 7mm mag like a 140 .The 7 mag shoots the 140 a little faster than the 130 in the 270 . 7 mm bullets usually has higher ballistic coefficient so on paper any way the 7mm is a better long range gun.If you are hunting anything bigger then deer a 160 in the 7mm flies pretty good .but I think you do not need the bigger bullet for deer.

[BarnesX.308]

The 7mm Mag will do everything the 270 Win will but better. Faster, slightly bigger bullet, a lot more choices in bullets. The only reason you would choose the 270 is if you preferred a lighter recoiling rifle.

[Setterman]

If you want the end-all, money is no object and intend to hunt game bigger than deer; pick the 7MM Mag. over the .270 Win. If you want to save a few bucks and economize and do some handloading to tailor for maximum performance, I'd pick the .270 Win. if deer is all you're after. The 7MM Mag. worked fine for me on deer and all I ever used was a handloaded 139 gr. Hornady Interlock. The gun shot like a taut string but each time it belched a round I'd burn up over 60+ grains of 4350 with each trigger pull. I mentioned money because shooting one is an expensive proposition if you shoot a lot. The 7MM's do hold the edge with a better bullet selection. Also, the .270 Win. might be handier in the woods by merits of lighter weight & 2" less in barrel length.

I was enamored by the 7MM Mag. when I was in my early 20's. More than thirty years later I hope I'm wiser and know that you can do the same with just a bit less if your prey is deer-sized game.

[BarnesX.308]

The gun shot like a taut string but each time it belched a round I'd burn up over 60+ grains of 4350 with each trigger pull. I mentioned money because shooting one is an expensive proposition if you shoot a lot.

My load for the 300 Wby is 88.5 grains of RL22 every time I pull the trigger :eek:. Luckily I don't shoot that much. I burn about a pound a year.

You could probably load the 7mm Mag down a little for deer and save a little powder. I wouldn't, though. Why have the gun if you're not going to use it to its full potential?

[Setterman]

I did load some handloads down with 4064, but they weren't as accurate as the hotter loads. Volume-wise, that .300 Weatherby case is enormous. Too get the most potential out of that round you're using a 26" bbl. I assume. That's one big rifle!

In the end, I deemed the 7MM Mag. a short-lived romance and something too pricey for me, that's also why I sold it about 14 years ago. It was a dandy too; Mauser action, custom Bishop Classic stock that I glass-bedded, and a sweet trigger. Used the money to buy some target guns and took up bullseye shooting.

I'm happy with my 6MM Rem., .300 Sav., .30-06's or .444 Marlin depending on the terrain I'm hunting. For the East coast , those are all I need today.

[BarnesX.308]

I'm not sure if that barrel is 24 or 26. It's a Weatherby Vanguard so it could actually be the 24". It's one heavy rifle but it shoots like a dream.

My old man has a 7mm Mag - had it for about 25 years. He loves it and it shoots very nice. A couple of my buddies have 270s and they are OK. One guy just lost a bear he shot with his 270. I'm sure a lot had to do with shot placement but, I would be intersted to see if a 160gr 284 caliber bullet would have done any better than a 130gr 277 caliber bullet. Certainly better pnetration.

[RUSS0079]

As was posted before, the 7mm will do everything the 270 Win can do but better. Recoil is more, louder, but you can shoot larger bullets. My buddy used his on our African Safari, for animals up to Kudo (size of our elk) No problem:). PH noted that he couldn't hear the bullet hit, because of the muzzle noise. Get the 7mm Mag, Adam and start handloading. The ammo he used was like 49.00 a box, What the????????

[maine_sport]

Which of the two cartridges will pack more of a punch at ranges 200yds-300yds a 270Win or a 7mm? Lay it all on me! Just curious.

I was surprised that no one listed the 7X57 Mauser. Jack O'Connor (late Outdoor Life Gun Editor) loved the .270 Win but his wife Eleanor liked the 7X57 because it had much less recoil. Most of their USA hunting was out west where long shots were common. It’s obvious that cartridges like the 7mm Rem Mag have superior velocity, energy, and trajectory at longer ranges but do you really need that for your type of hunting?

I bought a 7mm Weatherby magnum in 1963. I shot several deer with it. It was a beautiful rifle but I sold it to a good friend after a year. It was too much gun for the east coast. Ammo for that rifle would probably sell today for $60 for a box of 20.

[Darrin Greene]

If we're going to get into opinions.... I had a 7MM mag as my first deer rifles for all the reasons stated, more bullets, 500 yard gun etc etc...

I now have a 270 because I got tired of the weight of the big gun, the recoil, and I had no real need for it in Pa deer hunting, which is the only thing I use the rifle for.

[Setterman]

If I do buy one more rifle, I'm going to look for something in the .270, 7x57, or .280 class. Something classic, something older.

[ACEarcher]

I have a savage in .270win, but thinking about expanding. I never paid much attention to a 7mm, but outta the blue I just started thinking about it. Besides the 7mm I also need a 243win, 22-250, 308win, 300win, and thinking of a 338win. I like variety. lol

[Setterman]

My buddy just got a .284 Win. His contention was he considered this the best all-around cartridge for deer on the East coast taking in account good ballistics, bullet variety and all in a compact size package. He also likes unique things. Variety is the spice of life and to each his own. Don't know too many people who have a 7MM WSM, but that looks like a good cartridge to play around with as well.

[Darrin Greene]

I'm down to one 270 win and a benelli super black eagle in 12 gauge

and those are the only two guns I nede to do everythign I do from pheasants to ducks to geese to deer and back to groundhogs

I have too many other things to invest money in LOL

Life of a duck hunter... more boats, more decoys, more stuff, eventually you need a pole building to keep it all in LOL!

[nchuntin]

What really matters is using the right type of bullet. I own several rifles, one being a 270 win. and also a 308 win and a 300 win mag. I've shot deer with the 300 win mag and they have ran off, and hit perfectly. Not using the right type of bullet is more critical than the type of caliber you choose. You need the perfect mix of accurate and devastating. My personal choice for any hunting situation is the 308 win. Light recoil and with Remington Core-Lokt 150 grain BTSP is awesome from 10 yds to 400 yds. That's just my opinion.

[Pagrizz]

I have a savage in .270win, but thinking about expanding. I never paid much attention to a 7mm, but outta the blue I just started thinking about it. Besides the 7mm I also need a 243win, 22-250, 308win, 300win, and thinking of a 338win. I like variety. lolHave you ever watched Best of the West? Most of the time they use 7MM mag.It's nothing for them to take game out to 800 yards. I would never shoot that far ,but it shows what the 7 mag can do with the right bullet and scope.

[ACEarcher]

No, I'll have to look for it. Wow 800yd shots! Making shots like that have so many factors involved. Some day I'd like to learn how to shoot distances like that.

[Pagrizz]

No, I'll have to look for it. Wow 800yd shots! Making shots like that have so many factors involved. Some day I'd like to learn how to shoot distances like that.They shoot 168 gr Berger bullets and a scope that has more dials on it than a 747 jet. I have ordered a dvd from Berger that is suppose to show how they do it .After I get it I'll pass on to you if you want to see it.

[MattG]

My load for the 300 Wby is 88.5 grains of RL22 every time I pull the trigger :eek:. Luckily I don't shoot that much. I burn about a pound a year.

You could probably load the 7mm Mag down a little for deer and save a little powder. I wouldn't, though. Why have the gun if you're not going to use it to its full potential?

Why have a cartridge renowned for it's versatility if you aren't going to utilize that versatility?

A 7mm loaded to shoot at it's max velocity is overkill for deer in most parts and if you're shooting a bullet that expands too quickly and doesn't retain enough of it's weight, with all that velocity, it can blow apart on impact resulting in poor penetration. Vice versa, if you are shooting premium bullets designed for controlled expansion and maximum weight retention made for large game, they blow thru deer sized game so fast, they do not expand fully which results in minimal damage. Belive me, I see a lot of deer shot each year by a lot of different cartridges, loads and i've seen standard 150's shot from a .270 at 2750 fps do more damage, put larger holes in deer and spill more blood than a .338 shooting premium 200's at 3200 fps hit in the same spot do less damage, leave smaller holes and spill less blood in comparison. It's all about using the correct bullet weight, design and velocity for the size of the game you're pursuing. If faster going bullets designed for max weight retention were always better, more people would be shooting .30 cal magnums for deer...but they don't. Only place i would go to high velocities and costly xtra premium bullets would be out west where longer shots 200+ yards are common.

(1) Accuracy - Numero uno, number one, the most important peice of the picture. If you can't get them in the goodies, it don't matter what you're shooting. I don't think you'll get an argument from anyone here on the fact that less recoil means better accuracy, especially shooting offhand, which most your hunting shots will be. As long as your groups are good at lower velocities, for deer sized game, no reason to shoot at muzzle velocities any higher than 2800 fps. I download my 7mm mag to shoot 140 grain factory grade bullets designed for 2X expansion and 75% weight retention at 2650 fps. Why, (1) that is the right speed for maximum bullet performance on deer sized game (2) Recoil is tremendously reduced, less than that of a fully loaded .270 (3) I can shoot it accurately freehand due to the light recoil. (4) The results speak for themselves, I've never even had to think about a 2nd shot.

To me, a fully loaded 7mm needs a break to shoot accurately offhand, as do all of your larger magnums.

(2) value - (1) powder is expensive, so are barrels, so are premium bullets. (2) The less powder you burn per shot, the more you save. Furthermore, the lower the velocity of the bullet thru the barrel, the less the fouling and the less the wear on your barrel (your barrel will last a lot longer as will the accuracy of the barrel) (3) the less i'm spending per shot and the less wear per shot on the barrel, the MORE I CAN PRACTICE - #1 Remember.

(3) A big gun loaded to shoot at it's max velocities won't make up for your shortcomings, what ever they may be. The 7mm is a great all around choice as a hunting rifle due to its VERSATILITY, period. Downloaded, for deer sized game, it's perfect. Loaded to shoot at it's max velocities with premium bullets designed for maximum weight retention perfect for larger game like bear, elk etc..

[BarnesX.308]

While I'm deer hunting, I'm looking for that 800lb bear to walk by as well. I'll give him a poke with a sizzling Barnes X and bore a hole through him from stem to stern ;).

Shot a doe in the neck with the 300 last year and had nice expansion. Nearly took its head off :D.

I will always be in Roy Weatherby camp of high velocity. I cannot be converted. ;):fight:

[MattG]

yeah, that's the argument for high velocities and premium bullets made for maximum weight retention "you can punch the bullet thru from any angle" but when they don't perform properly when making "the right shot" as in broadside thru the ribcage, that's a problem, and i've seen it all too often from our guys who use their elk loads on PA deer. They make a perfect shot then they have to search for ever to find their deer when they blow thru so fast without expanding much leaving small holes and little blood to follow. High velocities and premium max weight retaining bullets are made to punch thru bone from any angle but do not reliably expand thru tissue. They're great for peircing an elk thru both shoulders in order to drop them in their tracks, that's what they're made for as no one wants to track an elk for a mile thru that unforgiving terrain, you want to drop them in their tracks. I'd do the same for deer if using such loads in the east, aim to break the shoulders, neck or spine to drop em like a rock, as i've seen too many deer go too far leaving little sign shot "right" which to me is as rediculous, as it is to advertise premium bullets & magnums as a substitute for waiting for a broadside shot :nuts: :razz: especially when they don't perform when you make that perfect ribcage shot :eek:. On deer sized game, there are plenty of midrange bullets like the prove core-lokt that can be shot at much more manageable velocities that do a fine job whether you make a ribcage, a shoulder or an "any angle" shot on. I'd save the high velocities and max weight retaining bullets for what they were designed for, making long range shots on large game out west, and load your guns for killing "deer" over here and you'll be happier with the results.

[Nitrous SwampRat]

its all a matter of preference.
I want a light gun i can carry all day so a short action is for me. im also taking into consideration that i will be hunting East coast deer sized game. 90% deer and maybe a bear or two. I want a flat shooting gun out to 300-400 yards. If i do buy a rifle it will (would) be either a 308 or 7mm WSM. as for brand of rifle i'd have to handle/shoot the big 3....remington, winchester, T/C.

Nick

[ACEarcher]

Oh yeah. I had that problem before. Lets just say that winchester brand ammo (super-X) shoots awsome, but does little damage in closer ranges. That was in my 270 savage.

[BarnesX.308]

A 7mm Mag with a standard 150 grain bullet will give you all the speed and flat shooting of the 130 grain 270 Win, a bigger bullet diameter and that extra weight for better penetration. If you use a standard bullet like the Core-Lokt, expansion will be good at all velocities.

If recoil bothers you and you don't reload, the 270 is your gun. Or better yet, a 7mm-08.:thup:

[ACEarcher]

Nah recoil is no bother to me. I shot a 50 BMG. WOW you wanna talk power lol! Also shot a 500 S&W. The 500 S&W jumped out of my hand the first time I shot it. I grossly underestimated it. I have a 270 and had some problems with winchester rounds just not taking deer down. Infact a couple times they ran off like nothing happen and I thought I missed. I use the cor-loks now and they rarely move 10yds after being hit. I am thinking about a 7mm though and just wanted to get some opinions in from some BuckBarn pros.

[BarnesX.308]

7mm Mag is a great and very versatile round. Nobody ever regretted owning own. Great deer medicine and can perform well on caribou, elk, moose and bear. The high speed rounds are great for long range shooting and accuracy is usually good.

[Darrin Greene]

No disputing the 7MM Mag for versatility and so on... but...

0 - 300 yards I believe if you didn't knock it down with your 270, you won't knock it down with an extra 20 grains of bullet weight and 300 fps of muzzle velocity...

[MattG]

True, true darrin big tough bullets shot at super high velocities that will go thru a 5" plate of steel at 300 yards are no subsitute for proper shot placement no matter what some may think!!!

Save the super premium bullets and hot loads for what they were intended for, taking the shoulders out on big game out west at long distances and use your standard easier expanding (though watch the ballistic tips, they tend to blowup at closer ranges) at more manageable velocities for eastern deer and you'll be happier with the results.

BTW, we took 3 black bear this year in PA, the largest one was taken with a .270 shooting 140's at around 2800fps...shot thru the ribcage, it went 40 yards and dropped like a stone! There is no substitute for shot placement.


Reminds me of a deer one of our guys hit with a .338 one year, it was quartering away and he hit it way back thru the arse. breaking down it's hindquarters. We tracked that deer for 2 days over a few miles (thank god for snow) he kept laying down, but getting up one step ahead of us. When we finally caught up to him..the next day 3 of us unloaded on him...he was dead now but wouldn't you know that buck stayed one step ahead of us for two days with just it's two front legs, his track looked like he was dragging another deer behind him as his whole arse end was useless. The shot from the .338 as large of a bullet that thing flings still failed to get the cartoroid artery in the hams despite going thru both of them. Never underestimate the toughness of those critters, it don't matter if you're shooting a bazooka, miss the vitals and 9 times out of 10 they either recover or end up being a coyotes dinner eventually rather than yours.

[WoodsHunter]

I myself would never attemp a 800yd. shot unless it was at a paper target. Would not want to see a animal go thru life with a wound. :naughty:
My opinion...

[Pagrizz]

I myself would never attemp a 800yd. shot unless it was at a paper target. Would not want to see a animal go thru life with a wound. :naughty:
My opinion...I agree that 800 yards is to far because even if you hit the target at that distance you do not have enough energy to take an animal cleanly.They shoot a few each show that drop ,but I wonder how many they lose that are not shown. I have taken game out to 500 and guided hunters that have done the same ,but I make sure that the gun being used has the killing power at that distance for the animal being shot and the shooter is accurate at these distances.I can not come up with a load that can kill at 700 and 800 yards, but I got the dvd of theirs and am going to at least try it for the range not hunting.

[RUSS0079]

While I'm deer hunting, I'm looking for that 800lb bear to walk by as well. I'll give him a poke with a sizzling Barnes X and bore a hole through him from stem to stern ;).

Shot a doe in the neck with the 300 last year and had nice expansion. Nearly took its head off :D.

I will always be in Roy Weatherby camp of high velocity. I cannot be converted. ;):fight:fd
I'm not a high velocity junkie, but as we have discussed before, Scott, The Barnes X even with moderate velocities will travel trans versly through most game, with 100% weight retention.. I shot several animals in Africa like that and a marginal hit turns into a 20 yard walk to the animal, because of performance of the bullet. But back to the topic, I did load the 270 Win with 150 grn Barnes X but couldn't take advantage of the lower pressures because the bullet was too long.

I really think what you want to do with the gun is what is going to determine caliber. I like the 8x57 JS with 180 grn Barnes at 2700+ fps.. does quite nicely. Hows that for an old caliber!

[BarnesX.308]

I like the 8x57 JS with 180 grn Barnes at 2700+ fps.. does quite nicely. Hows that for an old caliber!


Is that the old 8mm Mauser?

[RUSS0079]

Yes, but the JS, .323 caliber as apposed to the original 8x57 which was a .31 caliber. Next task for that rifle is a bull elk!!!!

[BarnesX.308]

Do you hand load that sucker? Can you use standard 8mm bullets or do you have to you have to hunt for the .323s? I know some of the old gun makers measured the bore diameter from land to land and some from groove to groove. Some calibers were closer than they sounded. Some not. Definitely a unique round.

I have a 6.5X52 Carcano. That's a unique one. The gun that killed Kennedy. That's a tough one to get ammo for. Brass too. I'm looking to sell it, actually.

[WoodsHunter]

Pagrizz,
I consider at least 1200ft/lbs. as min. for killing deer size game at any range. I don't think that there is any type of round that will maintain that energy at 800yds. and not to mention anything about the 46"+ holdover to allow for bullet drop. It's too far and too risky. Might get away with small animals (i.e. coyote, groundhog, fox) using ultra-high speed bullets
but not for deer, antelope, etc. And it would be non-sportmans to try that type of shot for elk, moose, and bear size game. :naughty:
Once again, my opinion ! ! :argue:

[Pagrizz]

Pagrizz,
I consider at least 1200ft/lbs. as min. for killing deer size game at any range. I don't think that there is any type of round that will maintain that energy at 800yds. and not to mention anything about the 46"+ holdover to allow for bullet drop. It's too far and too risky. Might get away with small animals (i.e. coyote, groundhog, fox) using ultra-high speed bullets
but not for deer, antelope, etc. And it would be non-sportmans to try that type of shot for elk, moose, and bear size game. :naughty:
Once again, my opinion ! ! :argue:
For elk and moose I like to have a least 1500ft/lbs .With the scopes they have today you just dial in the range.I have a burris 4x14 that I had dials put on it for the bullet and speed of my bullet.I can start at 100 and go to 500 yards and it's right on .I still agree that 800 plus yards is to far.On the show the other weekend they downed a grizz at 600 yards with one shot.I would never try one past 100 yards with my ultra mag much less a 7 mag .Like I said before how many animals have they wounded to get the one that drops.I will let you know what they say because I will see the guys from the show this coming weekend.

[RUSS0079]

[quote=BarnesX.308;17835]Do you hand load that sucker? Can you use standard 8mm bullets or do you have to you have to hunt for the .323s?

I call up Barnes and I get all the 180 grn .323 cals I want. Ty from Barnes is top knotch. When I was cooking up loads he sent me all the stuff over the computer without me having to by the manual. I bought it anyway just to have. I don't think I'll load the larger stuff though. They have a 200 and a 220 Grn in the TSX. The 180 has the weight and I can get the speed out of it to take larger stuff. I'll take it back to Africa when I go back for more plains game. The PH there couldn't believe I got the round to go so fast. Something to be said for hand loading. I did the same thing with my 300 Savage.. My dad has a Carcana in a 7X57, not a very well made rifle though

[BarnesX.308]

I got all my TSX loads from Barnes directly as their bullets came out long before the manual. I bought it too. I love reading the little write-ups on all the calibers as well as checking out ballistics when I'm bored. Some cool pictures of game in the manuals as well.

I'll be using it this weekend, though. I want to develop a coyote load for my 25-06 for the upcoming coyote tournament.

[RUSS0079]

Still working on getting up there for the Yote tourny. Don't think I'll register though. Just go out and get the wife a Yote Stoll to wear on special occassions. That 25-06 must really put the dogs down.... Do you get many Yotes coming back after that thing booms??? I love my 10FP .223 for the dogs and Chucks.
Russ

[BarnesX.308]

One more thought about the 270 vs 7mm:

You can load a 7mm to perform like a 270, but you can't work a 270 up into 7mm range.

Russ - I can't imagine a coyote sticking around no matter what you shoot at them. Only shot I ever took at a coyote was with a 300 Win Mag. I see a lot of them in archery. Never in range, though. Had two run by me this year at 40 yards.

I went out today and got a box of 100 grain Ballistic Tips for the 25-06. I should be able to get an accurate load from them. The loads range from about 2700-3300fps. All will knock a coyote's d!ck in the dirt :D.

[Flats Cat]

7mm Remington is one of the most overrated calibers out there lol.....You can use a .280 and get about the same results with Hornady Light Mags. I want one of these in 7mm/08!:thup:



http://www.chuckhawks.com/kimber_84m_classic.jpg

[Pagrizz]

7mm Remington is one of the most overrated calibers out there lol.....You can use a .280 and get about the same results with Hornady Light Mags. I want one of these in 7mm/08!:thup:



http://www.chuckhawks.com/kimber_84m_classic.jpgI own a 280 and a 7 mag and with a 140 grain bullet they are very close ,but when I went to 160 and 175 grain bullets the 280 did not have the powder capacity to hang with the mag.I have used the 280 for pronghorn to caribou,but I would not use it for anything bigger.I have guided hunters using it for moose ,but it is not my first pick for them.As for the 7mm/08 if I did not have the 280 I would own a 08.

[50 yard fred]

:thup:if ya really want a sweet caliber look up the 7mm western shhoting times
7mm wst it sick but tough to find a production gun that produces it
good luck but check it out google it